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Iraq Equipment Delay of 18 Months Costs Lives
Submitted by Grace Kelly on July 2, 2008 - 6:18pm.
Incredibly, the Marines could have had life saving 'Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP)' vehicles that save US soldier lives two months after the first request in February 2005. Instead, it took until 2007 to get MRAP vehicles. It is a story of bureaucracy and corruption that Norm Colman as Chair of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations could have been investigating and did not!
The first urgent request for MRAPs was sent in February 2005. Since then, at least 1,200 Americans have been killed by IEDs, and even the military agrees that MRAPs could have saved most of them.
(Read the whole PBS story)
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Trying to have it both ways
Gracie you are amazing. I'll bet that back in 2005 you were doing the same as most Dems and trying to cancel funding for the Iraq war. Now you have the gall to fault the military for not spending enough money?
I was in Iraq in 2007 when the Dem controlled congress had us wondering if the military could afford to buy more bullets. MRAP's certainly could have saved lives, but instead of trying to win the war the Dems were trying to un-fund it.
You don't need an investigation to fin out why we didn't have MRAP's in 2005, you just need to look in the mirror.
What's winning?
Dave,
I was in Iraq in 2004-2005 (OIF 3). The gall, is that we spend billions on civilian contractors toenrich their pockets, and zilch on the actual troops. When neo-cons talk about supporting the troops, they really mean supporting Raytheon, Haliburton, KBR, Lockhead, etc. How can you stand the profiteering happening by the private army of contractors? You had to have seen copious amounts of contractor inefficiencies at a huge cost to the taxpayer. You have had to be blind to not see this profiteering at a cost to the country and the soldier. So yeah, we bitch when the soldiers don't armor,because we actually support the troops. The right used you as pawns trying to scare you saying you wouldn't get bullets, (which was a lie).
I would ask you, how much has changed since I was there in 2005? They still got 8 mile long gas lines in a country sitting on oil? Sunnis and Shia all peacefully dancing in the streets? People still living and grazing their cattle and sheep in garbage dumps? You are mistaken if you think this administration cares one lick about the troops except as photo ops and pawns. They will protect their corporate profits, and that is what this war is sadly about!
Recently, a group of six four star generals requested that they be allowed to put together a comission on oversight of contractors because there had been BILLIONS in fraud and abuse of military contracts. Now, supposedly Bush listens to the Generals, but when they want to stop fraud by contractors, Bush chose the contractors and said that there will be no oversight, it might affect profits. Do you need any more proof that it is about profits, and not winning?
Couple of questions:
1.) We are winning on a tactical level, with security gains do to a great Army and a buildup of troops, but on a more important strategic level we have made little progress since 2003. There is still a civil war, and little real reconcilliation.
What is winning?
2.) Were you a Fobbit?
3.) Were you in some day camp like Balad? (Camp Anaconda)?
Justice will only exist where those not affected by injustice are filled with the same amount of indignaation as those offended.
Wiki definition of fobbit:
Fobbit is an derogatory term used by coalition forces in Iraq to describe base working personnel. It derives from the mixing of the acronym FOB (Forward Operating Base), with Hobbit from J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings universe. The implication of the term is that as the Hobbits had no inclination to leave the Shire and face danger, the person referenced by the slur is too scared to leave their cozy home. The term can be used to describe Department of Defense personnel or Department of Defense contracted employees. The word is generally used by combat oriented troops that perform combat, combat support, or combat logistical operations outside of the FOB.
Actually I do want it both ways
I would have rather had the option where we were entirely out of Iraq. However if we stay in Iraq, and if we spend money then surprisingly I would spend the money on actually supporting our troops, not paying for contractors and corruption.
Right now it looks like very little money actually does get spent on the troops.
More funding approved!
At least another 6 months funded by Congress, quite willingly I might add. Might be time to replace those that two years ago said they'd get us out of Iraq...
So many questions
-Yes Alex, things have changed since you were there in 2005. No more gas lines, and the Sunnis in the Anbar (you know the province that was lost?) play soccer with the Shia and the US Marines.
-The civil war that never really started is over. The Iraqis in Fallujah and Baghdad are enjoying walking in the market without fear of AQI trying to blow them up.
-Yes, I've seen contractors waste money. But no worse than I've seen the military waste money. You're trying to change the story.
-I was stationed at Al Asad, but we were out of the wire more than we were in. And no, I wasn't a Fobbit, but it was rather cute that Gracie wanted to feel like she belonged so she looked up the definition. I'm happy to show you my CIB, but only if I can see yours, and CAB's don't count.
But neither you or Gracie have a refutation for her wanting to have it both ways. The reason the Marines didn't order MRAPs in late 2005 is because they knew Congress wouldn't approve the funding request. For the past 3 years the DOD has had to go hat in hand to Congress, begging for money to keep fighting. Where was there money to buy a new fleet of vehicles?
Look Alec, my fight on this isn't with you. You've been there, done that, and you have every right to say how bad it was or how wrong you think we were to be there. But Grace, a civilian, who has constantly voiced her opinion that we should retreat and argued against more war funding every time the issue came up? She has no moral ground to complain that we weren't spending enough, because she was part of the spending problem.
Rather than carping about how many lives were lost because we didn't have MRAPs, maybe you should be wondering how many less lives would have been lost if the anti-war left in America hadn't been encouraging AQI to hang on a little longer.
And by the way Gracie, I'll save you the trip to Wiki. AQI is Al-Qaeda in Iraq. You've heard of them, right?
Your departure is almost complete
"The civil war that never really started is over".
Your departure from reality is almost complete. You will soon live in the land where President Bush found and removed the weapons of mass destruction, where the Iraq citizens welcomed us with flowers and freely gave us all of the oil in gratitude. In your visions, we will even get translations of songs written to thank us for invading Iraq and destroying everything.
Dave
Dave,
It was stupid and immature to question your service. Vets shouldn't do that and I am ashamed. So, I am sorry, whether or not you have a CIB. I don't. I was Infantry for 12 years, but deployed Signal. Anyway, I was out of line.
It just bugs me, because I cannot see how a rational person cannot believe this war is about nothing but corporate profits. KBR getting paid 90k per year to do jobs a 15k private could do, and that is pervasive. We have privatized our Army, which scares the shit out of me. Just to get some perspective, we were there when you still drove from Kuwait to Baghdad and my company had to do the old hillbilly armor trick of welding scrap metal to soft sided HMMWV's. Dave, this war is not about America, it is about Exxon, Haliburton, and Blackwater. Any way to get soldiers home is the patriotic thing to do. I still don't know what you guys mean by winning. I'll take Bush's Mission Accomplished as gospel and say we won 5 years ago and can come home.
AQI is a minimal, small slice of the unrest in Iraq. They are just the administration's boogey man. And Dave, it was civil war in 2005. Gotta believe it.
Take care,
Alec
Justice will only exist where those not affected by injustice are filled with the same amount of indignaation as those offended.
No sweat
No offense taken Alec. And I meant none toward you either.
What I know is that the I drove convoys from one end of the Anbar to the other, literally. From spring of 2006 when I got there to summer of 2007 when I left, attacks were down by 80%. And yes, most of the attacks we saw were by AQI. I know because we captured a few and they stood trial. But it's not just the numbers. I saw Iraqi police and army taking reponsibility for their country. They took more risks than any of us were even allowed to think about. I saw Iraqi kids who went from being afraid to talk to us because AQI would kill their parents, to running out to meet our convoys to tell us where the IED's were.
Where you can't understand how anyone can not see the war about corporate profits, I can't understand how anyone would want to subject the Iraqis to the full civil war that would happen of we pulled out tomorrow. Even the worst democracy is better than the best dictatorship.
In any case, as to the subject of the post. Even in Gracie's best case scenario, President Obama will still take 16 months to withdraw the troops from Iraq. So if you think it was a travesty not to give the troops MRAPs in 2005, then you should be all in favor of increasing the amount of money we spend on the war, to safeguard the troops as we are being withdrawn.
By the way, Alec, shoot me an email sometime. I'd love to hear more about your time over there.